Robert Peng: The Making of a Qigong Master

Elizabeth Rovere:
Hello and welcome to Season Two of Wonderstruck. I am your host Elizabeth Rovere. I’m a clinical psychologist, a yoga teacher and a graduate of Harvard Divinity School. I’m really curious about our experiences of wonder and awe and how they transform us. My guest this time is healer and world renowned Qigong Master Robert Peng. We recorded our conversation last summer at Wonderstruck’s Symposium on Wisdom and Pedagogy in France. This year’s symposium focusing on consciousness will be held this summer in Scotland. The story of Robert Peng developing extraordinary powers begins during the Chinese Cultural Revolution. At eight years old, he started apprenticing with a legendary monk named Xiao Yao, known for his healing abilities, martial arts skills and ways of defying both perception and what many consider to be reality. Xiao made the impossible possible. In one story, Robert tells about his master, Xiao is struck with an ax. But instead of the master being injured, the ax marks appeared on a tree nearby. Soon Peng himself could do the seemingly impossible, too, and he explains that it was all about cultivating his Qi. So what is Qi? Is it something only for the master? Or is it a life force we all possess? In our conversation, Robert clarifies what Qi really is, where it comes from, and what it has to do with the energy centers of Chinese medicine. He also reveals how he uses his learnings to both save lives and improve hundreds of thousands of others.

Elizabeth Rovere:
You know, we have to just start because, in case folks listening don’t know what Qigong is. I’m wondering if you can give the short description of what actually this is, as a Qigong master?

Robert Peng:
Well, Qigong are two words. One is Qi. Qi is the most essential energies that make us, everybody has what it’s supposed to be. Not everybody, everything. Say if a piece of paper, you tear it, the Qi that holds this piece of paper as one, is broken. So that is the substantial energies that flows inside the body, that holds everything together. Yeah, in Chinese we say you have good Qizhi, Qi quality. We are made up of the same kind of atoms, molecules even but look, everybody’s different. The difference is the quality of a Qi. So there’s the energy, or we call it bioenergy, bioenergy, the energy that make us what it is, so that’s the essence of the Qi. Gong is practice. If I say kung fu, you know, Gong means kung fu… is a short name to say kung fu. Kung fu is from Kung Fu, is Cantonese words to say? Kung Fu, now we say kung fu is like, martial art. Right? Right, actually kung fu originally can mean something, you have to dedicate for a certain period of time. You can say it took me two hours of kung fu to write this poem. It took me, take this company 20 years of kung fu to build this bridge. So, concentrated hard work. So hard work, practice, practice. And continuous. Kung fu takes a lot of effort. So that is another meaning, martial art, we still use kung fu in our daily language. We say well, do you have some kung fu, that we can have some tea together? So, time. So Qigong, put it together is the cultivator of bioenergy, the essence of the energy.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Cultivation of bioenergy and the essence of energy. And you know, when I read your wonderful book, The Master Key and in that, you know, you describe Qi as this lifeforce and kind of talk about it in a way as a bit of a universal like, things like Prana or Ki. Or you know, like literally lifeforce. Yeah, these are I think it’s Ruach, in Hebrew. That this is a kind of a common understanding of something that now we don’t know much about in the modern world.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, that’s right. I think in ancient times, the ancient philosopher or meditators, they through their inner cultivation – because when they meditate they can feel and sense and actually witness so many things that we cannot see in our naked eyes, or even with high advanced technologies. And they may put it down or they may pass it on. And that is their special ways of observing Qi. So, although we don’t name that the same, but that’s from different, observable and sisters, they put it down. So Prana, Ki. You know, in Japan, Reiki, Reiki, although it’s not ancient, but Reiki for me as a Chinese who don’t know Japanese, if I read it means spiritual Qi. So Qi is going beyond the physical, that is the hard things for people to comprehend, especially for Western people, because Western people are so good with statistics, your science, evidence, double blind, all those things. But that the meditation, the cultivation of Qi goes into your personal. Nowadays, we see the quantum physics is getting quite close to understand the Qi. We say, we observe it, this is particle, we don’t observe it as waves. So, one thing can be the same, can be two different demonstrations, that is exactly like what Qi is like. When you concentrate, meditate, they work according to the Buddhism, everyone is born sufficient with energy, meaning you have the Buddha nature. Buddha, the Buddha is now something; actual, it is enlightenment, is that he began to realize that we all possess something… but through some cultivation, is your healing power, your spiritual power, your psychic power, mediums – all this are stored here. In your body, especially in inside your head, we call it Upper Dantian they store the energies of wisdom. So when the energy here is strong and healthy, you feel guided. If you’re guided like you always make good decisions, no matter in terms of time or the way; not logically, but like, intuitively. It’s like you have good GPS inside the head. Yes, when you’re life, you’re supposed to turn left or turn right. There is a magic hand that helps to maneuver the wheel of life. We call it Upper Dantian in the concentrated energy light up in my Qigong we call Elixir Light Qigong, because we use a lot of light and Dantian, D-A-N-T-I-A-N. It’s a very interesting term. It’s a Taoist term, okay? Because “dan” means elixir, elixir, pure, meaning concentrated something right? Because when you concentrate, then they became the energy, like laser. They’re all ordinary light. But when they concentrated, then it can be so powerful in the custom of big, thick things. The same with our practice, when we practice, when every meridian is clear, then it’s very easy for you to concentrate, then becomes to be powerful. That’s called “dan”. Yeah, elixir. Tian, T-I-A-N, means field. Field is spread, it is an area right, right?
This area is a “dan,” then “tian.” It’s contradictory from the word itself. But it’s very meaningful. You know, nowadays we know from modern metaphysics though. There’s no limit of how small it is. Even the smallest is to have like, big world. In ethics, William Blake, even the smallest – actually in Buddhism, they call it, even the smallest grain of sand. You still hold several universes. Many, there’s no limit of how small it is. We know that you know, electrons, free electrons versus to atoms is like little ping pong ball versus the big hall of stadium, right? So, it’s huge space, even in that tiny space. That is the same as a Qi actually, Qi. There’s no limit of how small it is. That’s why we can do the Qigong healing remotely. We have a scene where your mind goes, your Qi goes. You think about New York City. Your Qi you out there. Yeah, but the problem is this goes away, but through a practice, we can make it fixed, or make it concentrated, then you really get connections with energy in New York City, in Paris, in wherever. And you can even use these ways to empower your feng shui. The energy in your properties. Because energy in the property is very easy –

Elizabeth Rovere:
I want you to slow down for one second because you’re saying amazing things. I want to just clarify, so Dantian, you’re talking about the Upper Dantian…just kind of like the place of wisdom, or like an internal GPS that’s very intuitive… Is an incredible like, laser-like energy and at, within the context of a field as well. And that’s something that is cultivated, right? Through Qigong, through meditation. And that you can channel it through the sorts –

Robert Peng:
of the meridian. Yeah, the meridian is another amazing concept about the energy channels. Yeah, energy channel, because the, you know, acupuncture to do with the meridian. Yes, yeah, or internal organs…is not just there, but they have extensions to go connect with the fingers have the access to go out through some part of the finger point, energy point, acupuncture points. The amazing thing is that still now, nowadays, there’s no direct anatomy to find, meridian. That’s why people still think this doesn’t exist, right? You can have anatomy with all the nerves, but why meridian, does not exist. The problem is that it works big time. Yes, actually, my understanding or explanations is simple. It doesn’t mean that you cannot, you cannot find it up with a dead body, doesn’t exist in the living person. Because meridian exists with a breath. When you stop the breathing, the meridian disappears. That’s why you cannot find it in that dead body.

Elizabeth Rovere:
What happens then? To this energy, this breath, right? The breath, the energy on the breath, or when a person dies, does it go? Where does it go? Well, and what does Qigong think about the context?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, we’ll call it spirit. I believe it. Master of course, he’s a Buddhist monk. They believe in the past life, they believe in the future life, and I believe so. Because of the, you know, there are so many things I find that you cannot explain, you can make it happen for this life, is possible. You know, every people you meet, if you know their story, you find that always has have some connections with some part of their –

Elizabeth Rovere:
When we look at Qigong, right, like we’re, it’s, it’s partly Well, it’s in Buddhism, it’s in Taoism. It’s in the Shaolin tradition. So, kind of expands through these traditions, but some Buddhist traditions, there’s not so much of an interest in the physicality of the body, and in other traditions, it is about the physicality of the body to help cultivate Qi.

Robert Peng:
That’s true. Yeah, that’s true. Well, we have a like rough category, we say Buddhist Qigong, Taoist Qigong, Medical Qigong, Martial Qigong. Yeah, so Qigong goes Tai Chi, people ask, what is Tai Chi, the difference between Tai Chi and Qigong? Tai Chi is part of Qigong. So, Qigong is like, they universal among them, well, actually, Qigong is the essence of their practice, right? Like Buddhism, even I think including Christianity, they have some like prayer or some ways to make the body, mind synchronize in one. And that practice, because it’s going with the belief, so they think it is part of their ritual, they don’t call it “Qigong.” But the practice of cultivating energies to nourish your mind, wisdom, to nourish your loving energy, and love; nourish your vitality energies, these three energies should be synchronized as one. The problem is that we’re not synchronized. Yeah, we can be very developed one place, then the other place is not so developed, then we begin to suffer. When we are born you know, we started with that little cells and then they grow… the first thing, after all the tiny organs, then is the core here…. is like super powerful computer processing. This is the second, supposedly, not only here. Our skin, our noses, our lips, hearing, all this are the extension of the so called, or the first eye, or we say Upper Dantian, they collect information. So this is processing this. They can even process the information from past life. In Buddhism they have the name they call it chasing eyes, or recalling eyes. They use the eye as the way of your ability. You have recalling eyes, meaning you can recall what happens in the past, even before your birth. Another is chasing eyes, that you can see the future. Because nowadays, we actually, we are getting close to understanding… we mentioned about quantum physics. What is time? Past or future, or now, there’s no distinctions when you’re in that very, one moment. That’s why they encourage you in Buddhism, they encourage you to practice now, because now is the only one that is present. Only present. You worry about the future, you regret about the past. It just makes you miserable. So that’s the Upper Dantian.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And then there’s the–

Robert Peng:
The extensions.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, the ears, you always – the ears are very important in that –

Robert Peng:
They go with organs. So that is also, very big part that make us connected with Upper Dantian as well. And so, when Upper Dantian is strong and healthy, if you guide it. There is another energy center that is concentrated in the middle of your chest, when it is strong and healthy if you are loving and loved.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And that’s the call at the center, the Middle Dantian.

Robert Peng:
The Middle Dantian. And it’s like you have a Buddha heart, compassionate, and always hugging people. The extension are hands, actually, arms. You know when we just met? What do we do? We hug. As you want to extend your feelings of love through your branches. So, when this Qi is strong and healthy, you feel loving and compassionate. But when it is weak, then you feel closed, like a stone heart. Or you feel fragile, like an easy, broken heart, right? So, if you’re fragile, if you’re insecure, feel like sad, easily. You feel like, always in the victim situation. Like if you go somewhere, instead of enjoying, and you always find something that makes you uncomfortable. That is Middle Dantian, not developed strong enough. Because when the Middle Dantian is strong, healthy, it feels like you have a few layers of protection. If you’re even in a very difficult situation.

17:55
Elizabeth Rovere:
That’s very interesting, because you’re saying that you feel compassionate and open. And through that compassion and open and strength of the Middle Dantian, you also feel protected, because people usually think oh, you’re open and compassionate, you’re vulnerable. But it’s protective.

Robert Peng:
That’s right. That’s right. Because they got, they’re two ways. One way is like breathable layer of clothes. Not just one way. Yeah, actually, I always every now and then in my workshop, people ask this question: if I’m open, what about some bad chi? You know, I’m open to, then I can hurt. I was a bit, by just thinking about it. You need to develop this part of here, because when it is strong here, that kind of Bad chi, is not bad chi. There’s no bad, good Qi. Qi is the energy. The way of using it can be bad and good. Fascinating, right? Key Point. Yeah, it’s like you know, gold: we say gold is good. You make a ring, you make new earrings. If you put gold into your mouth and swallow it, that kills you. No, good. So, the energy, but you know, in my, in my newsletter, in my email, I always say “good Qi.” Meaning, “in good Qi,” meaning “I wish you in the good blessing of the energy field.” Qi, there’s no good or bad, it’s just pure energy, pure energy. Right? So, when you in that kind of calm and easy situations, receiving, there are all beautiful things happen to you.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Right. So, it’s almost like, something negative is just not experienced as such. It’s kind of like, maybe it’s a little annoying, but it’s like, I love you anyway, you’re alright.

Robert Peng:
First, maybe the miserable things in my eyes, is happy things, but the miserable person is miserable.
Another is really something that make you miserable, that can be slide away. Actually, when we practice Qigong, we find that life really changed, enlightened a lot.

Elizabeth Rovere:
You know, your story is so fascinating because you studied during the Cultural Revolution in secret. And you’re this world-renowned Master, Xiao Yao, was sort of relegated to working in a boiler room. So, your first temple, or practice, was in a boiler room in secret. Right? And then you like, and that’s the other thing, too. You had a heart condition as a child, and he healed you, without you even kind of knowing exactly what was happening.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, he has got all kinds of ways of healing. One way is called just gazing.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Through his gaze?

Robert Peng:
His gazing power’s amazing. Yeah, he can look at it you then make a change. It’s just looking at you.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Could you feel it? Like you could feel it?

Robert Peng:
You can feel it, but you don’t know what it is. Like after we chatted, he said, where, what happened to you? You are in school age, why you didn’t go to school? I said, well, I have chest pain. The doctor asked me to stay at home. I was bored. I come here. Then he stopped. He was gazing at me. I feel the vibes. I feel the very strong, gazing, caring, but at that time, I didn’t know he was doing the healing. I just feel very special for several minutes. Later, when I learned how to do this, of course he didn’t even tell me he was doing the healing. Another amazing thing is that he can use to stop some violent things, without even, like, showing his ability.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And I think about that training with him, and I have to go back to your story: that he started you in horse stance, which is kind of like standing in this like, kind of like, you’re using your thigh muscles like intensely, right? And you were complaining about it after four minutes. You’re like, what? And then, three weeks later, you were in it for four hours without knowing it. I mean, I don’t even know how – can you explain that?

Robert Peng:
Horse stance actually mainly trains the one we haven’t talked about, the Lower Dantian. Yeah, the Lower Dantian, like Upper Dantian, wisdom, Middle Dantian, love, Lower Dantian, vitality. Sexual power, birth power are all stored here. So, when Lower Dantian is strong you have, you’re vital, of course. You’re like, charismatic. You’re juicy, you always want to move, you have good energy to perform that you have very strong willpower also, you can make things happen. Like when you have good plan, or good ideas without Lower Dantian, then halfway it collapse. A lot of people have beautiful ideas, but never can make it work. We call armchair professor. Yeah, armchair professor, or a lot of people even more, I think I was very sympathetic to them, they try 90% of the work but last 10% they don’t keep right. Wasted. Because here doesn’t support enough vitality Qi. Also, it helps with good health, too. So, the horse stance is like, you’re standing really low position, focus on here, the energy just swamp on here. Really hot, actually.

Elizabeth Rovere:
But you’re sort of imagining the energy coming into this space?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, there’s some meditation part. And also, some people now I train, some people who, already like, quite older age. I teach them how to do the wall sit. The wall sit, it trains some special muscle, but more like energy concentration here. After like a very short time, actually. The Bodhidharma teaches this, too This sickly monk, disabled monk or ill monk, like, who is ill, after just several weeks of training their body are transformed, body transformed. So one thing after a few weeks of training, is that the only test how your Guardian Qi this is Guardian Qi, the two ways, one is that you can stand hard contact, like people who have hit on you. You’re more protected, you don’t get injured easily. Another is the immune system. So, what he did is, he gets a sledgehammer on the corner and hit on my lower belly—bang, bang—very strong. It bounced back like a tire.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So, wait, slow down a minute. So basically, that’s what’s so fascinating. Through this process, it’s not like you’re not just going about doing physical exercise, you’re doing a meditation, and you’re cultivating this Lower Dantian Qi. To the point where he hits you with a sledgehammer and it bounces off you and you’re not in pain.

Robert Peng:
Not at all.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And that’s profound. Right? People don’t understand that. And yet, this is a process that can be trained, that you can learn.

Robert Peng:
That’s the Dantian. Dantian concentrates it. Then when the energy needs, they expand to give you layers of protections

Elizabeth Rovere:
Right okay, so that the laser-like energy expanded to protect you, so it bounces off.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, it bounces off, including people who is like hostile to you. Like, bad attitude can make you feel protected, too. Yeah, of course that goes together with the Middle Dantian as well, yeah. I know the oldest one I trained who can really do something like this: 92 years old?

Elizabeth Rovere:
No!

Robert Peng:
After three months, I train them. Of course, I didn’t use the sledgehammer. You know, what I did? Chopsticks. Actually, it’s even harder. Chopsticks. Go against here is the weakest point. They go, break it.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So, you push a chopstick against his throat and it breaks?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, break it. To demonstrate it, we did, instead of the chopsticks, we use the spears. Go here. I have a video of my student. Yeah, I show you later.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, gotta see. Well, that’s the thing too, when you talk about these kinds of extraordinary feats that Xiao Yao can do, that you can do, that your students can do, which is like, you know, taking a spear at the heart and it just bounces off. I mean, it does seem like something of The Matrix. I mean, it sounds like a movie, like Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon.

Robert Peng:
Oh, that part is even more amazing. It goes way beyond this. This is just soft part. So, the other amazing things, is that he asked me to use ax to chop on his chest.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Right, which just, that’s part of the training. Here, take an ax and chop on my chest.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, that’s not training. That’s what he wants to demonstrate to me, because I begin to have a little bit of doubt. Yes, he was like very strict. That’s early stage. I have a lot of doubt. So, is this just the bully? Yeah, he wanted to show his power. So, first, you know if you have ax chop on here, first you’re gonna cut. No, just like white mark disappears at first. He said, chop here. I use the ax, very heavy ax, I was very afraid I’m going to hurt him, boom. Nothing happened. Stronger, boom. Of course nothing happens. It gets stronger until I really swing on it. No problem. My hands numb. Another amazing thing after that that people may not feel, may not believe it, but I experienced it. After this, I say, go out. Look at the third trees. All my chopping marks was on there, still dripping from chopping, you know that fresh way of chopping on the skin. That is a bit beyond this mystical, beyond the ordinary mind to comprehend it. In Buddhism, they do have this, we call it Xiaobanyun. Like you can move things. So, when I was chopping on this chest, he moved the tree in front of you.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So, he energetically moved the tree.

Robert Peng:
It’s like you changed the dimensions.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Whoa, that is incredible.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, a few times. It’s not one time I put only one time but a few times. It’s like you’re in another world working on this.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yes. How was that for you? How did you feel in that kind of awareness?

Robert Peng:
I was a little boy, of course I know. Then totally, I was, “well I want to go. I want to keep on going practicing.” Because you know horse stance at first was very challenging. Yeah. You mentioned this, after several weeks, every time when I’m going to practice this is the hard part, oh my god. Then one day I was holding the position, horse stance. Then I was in a trance. It feels like as if someone is putting a chair under my butt. Then I was in a trance. When I got back—four hours. Four hours were gone. Four hours were gone, I didn’t have any clue, I was like, I’ve just had a great dream. My master was very happy. too, because you know, that is like a turning point. He said, beautiful because that anchors the Lower Dantian Qi. It has become to be solid. Before you focus on here, it’s here. You don’t focus, it goes. So now, it anchors there. It is after that, with more practice, he can hit me on the Lower Dantian.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yes, so that makes me think, too, that was part of your practice that then let you sleep on a thin rope. Or, a tree branch?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, there’s another—inner balance. He said, “we are all balanced because your mind are not so balanced.” So, he trains me the way to start. Like in the rope. They were hanging on both ends of the room. Then, he, so easy, like a hammock. And then he asked me to do, of course I tried, the whole night. Then I made it. Yeah. Another amazing he said, doing this when you’re sleeping. That’s even more, like, amazing, too, because it’s already very difficult.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah. Why doesn’t your body fall off?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, he wants you to hold the chops, hold a spoon, and go to sleep tonight on the rope. Then of course, when I sleep, boom, bang, you wake up, you pick up. Keep going. Yeah. You want to go in inside, you have another eyes internally that are watching you, even when you’re sleeping and like, hypnosis. Training your Qi. So, when you are resting your Qi is still cultivating.

Elizabeth Rovere:
When you’re resting your Qi is still cultivating.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, so your Qi are like constantly. That brings another thing he always say, nourish your Qi, nourish your Qi. Allow the Qi to work on you. You’re not just training the Qi. Qi should have ability, chances to train you. The Qi has better intelligence than you.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So the Qi is aware.

Robert Peng:
Aware. Qi, when he is saying this word actually he’s begin to using a lot of crossing senses. Yeah, like, we use the nose to smell, we will use the eyes to watch. But many times, especially when he’s teaching me the Tai Chi, he always says, listen to my force. The force you feel it, listen to my fore. Smell the color. All this crossing senses.

Elizabeth Rovere
Like synesthesia.

Robert Peng:
For him there’s no distinction.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Because you’re using all of the senses and awareness to experience, learning to cultivate it.

Robert Peng:
You can use the breathing, use your skin to do the breathing. You can even use the skin to eat nutrients, to get nutrients from the air. You know, we have vitamin D. That’s your skin’s digestion.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Was that, I mean, was that aspect somewhat helpful when you went through the 100 days? The 100 day, what do you want to call it, the 100 day training?

Robert Peng:
We call it the 100 days water fast.

Elizabeth Rovere:
But in the dark?

Robert Peng:
Yeah. In the dark? We call it Biguan, special name. Bi means close. Guan means inner cultivation, inner awareness. Actually, when he started to teach me he’s talking about Biguan all the time. He says someday you should have Biguan. I should guide you Biguan, 100 days water fast to make it simple explanations. But until later, when I decide to go like, more in the way of leading the Qi to the healing power. Because all those years of training make your energy powerful. This energy can be powerful in your martial art, too. I got in the big fight in the street, the street fight. And I won but, you know, that kind of triumph sense feeling lasted only a few seconds. Then, I was big fear because I thought I killed that guy. If you kill someone, you’re gonna be shot dead. I was so freaked out. Of course he just passed out, then I have to go to the hospital and bring him present to see him. Actually that is my turning point. Like my awareness about the beings. Yeah, because as soon as I entered the room, he was still frightened. Because you know, the fear that happens. The fighting was still there. He was so freaked out. Actually I went to see him. Also when I saw he was so frightened, I got an enlightenment. I asked myself what happened to me? Why at that moment, when I was fighting he was like a monster. I just want to kill him right? I used to–

Elizabeth Rovere:
Well he hurt your friend.

Robert Peng:
He hurt my friend, he the used knife, stabbed on me. I still have scars on the back, three of them, taller and bigger than me. I have to try my best ,but also that kind of fury was so big. Then when he’s showing his vulnerability, I say, my god, that’s just another big boy, why am I treating him like a monster? I begin to question myself.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So you had a real, great enlightenment, a realization about that.

Robert Peng:
Yeah then my Master, off course, he punished me first. Because you lose emotions. You know the punishment, nailed down on the washing board. Actually against the walls. They have a little angle washing board. Very painful. Actually, I can handle the pain but I cannot handle that I let my master down. Yeah, so later, not too long after he had a conversation with me, say well, over these use of these years of training, the energy I taught you can be guided in fighting. If you like, I can keep you keep teaching you different forms. You know, his way of form is very interesting. He doesn’t use too much weapons, because we don’t have that much. The most is one sword. Or, or ax. He teaches him how to use the broomstick, chopstick as his weapon. One thing amazing. Is that like rope? Yeah, the row that we sleeping on your take it, very soft. Then he project the Qi. Then it’s like they begin to charge with something, get straight. They can use that rope to stab on the watermelon. Like a stick.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Fascinating.

Robert Peng:
So, later, he said, you know, if I keep that part, I may go to competitions and you know that kind of martial arts contest. The best successful stories, Jet Li. He is one year older than I actually, we didn’t know each other. Of course, he was in Beijing. But he won a championship in a few years, three years in a row. Then the director in Hong Kong found him. Then he was starred, at I think 14 years old, a movie called Shaolin Temple. Wild wild sale. Yeah, everybody. I watched a million times. I love that story. Anyway, that’s one part is that if you keep, I can keep teaching you. So you’re more out. And that is more like hermit, you use the same type of energy, but guided more towards the healing. He was very democratic, and say, well, give me a few days to decide. Tell me which way you want to go. I said, I don’t want to wait a few days. I want to do the healing with you. Because I already see a few of the healings he did. Among some people knows him well, although he still tried to keep low key. But some friends know about how grateful people was when he was doing the healing and how beautiful, I already swear I wanted to do that. So when he gave me the opening, I said, “I want to do this.” That was the time he begin to say, “well, I’m going to do Biguan for you, 100 days of water fast.” Then he went back to the monastery. I can only visit him during my summer or winter vacations. One day I went there, after my summer vacations started. I was expecting, I have some beautiful days with all the monks and the first night, alright, he said, “Let’s do Biguan” Now? Okay. Then he just brought me to that room. Actually, it’s at the basement of the temple.

Elizabeth Rovere:
The basement of the temple was all stone, too.

Robert Peng:
Yeah. It’s the stone room. The stone room, about this size. Yes, small like this two thirds of the size. And then there’s another little room for my toilet. That’s all. The only light I could see was the lit incense held in his hands. Because everyday he visited me, bringing the incense, we’re talking in the darkness, guiding me to do different meditations and breathing. Then he will put that stick, incense in a bowl with the rice so they can hold it. Maybe another hour, then pitch dark again. Yeah, first 20 days. I have jujube in this Chinese dates. Yes, yes three dates day. At first I didn’t know I just Oh, then they say oh no, no, this is one meal. One jujube. And that actually trained me to do the mindful eating: this is your meal. Yeah. So one meal, one jujube can take an hour to really feel all that flavor, the textures even trace how it grows. Yeah, then it’s just pure water. The amazing thing I mentioned about the breathing. I didn’t lose too much weight for 100 days. I didn’t weigh but I know how I look. I don’t know. Like, skinny at all, I don’t lose too much weight. Well, one thing my master mentioned, he could say, “your breathing are taking the nutrients from around you from the air.”

Elizabeth Rovere:
So, sustaining you.

Robert Peng:

Yeah, sustaining, and another amazing thing happening to me is like, what it’s like a few lives experience for this 100 days, all experience that I can experience an in an ordinary life. I have it there. 10 times, 100 times more intensive. Like joy, anger, sadness, that kind of feeling. Hatred, very intensive. It’s just like, pop out in front of you strong, physically pain, you know, the coldness, heat.

Elizabeth Rovere:
It was intensified.

Robert Peng:
Very, very much. The hardest one actually is the itchiness. It’s like millions of mosquitoes or ants are biting on you. But if you move a little bit, it’s gone. It’s always, it’s always say the evil mind playing a trick on you. But if I do meditation again, when I reach that level, it comes again until I say, I give up. I’m going to die. I die like this. I go to the hell, I go to the hell.

Elizabeth Rovere:
It’s a surrender

Robert Peng:
So when you surrender, yeah. Then for some moments you’re struggling, then you begin to forget who you are. That is most beautiful part. It’s like Nirvana. It’s so beautiful. You don’t, you want to keep it forever. You don’t want to stop, of course, then they begin to quiet down. “Oh, I’m back.” Yeah, they do. Then you do the other little changes, the breathing, the meditations. Then it goes to another channel to experience different things until it’s all cleared.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Like when you’re going through these meditations and practice, you’re experiencing the itchiness or the anger or the joy, or these different emotions or physical experiences, that’s part of the… is it like a trial? Or part of the process of getting to your Nirvana. It’s almost like, you can’t sidestep it, you have to go through it.

Robert Peng:
You have to go through it. If you don’t go through it, it returns. Then, if you go through it, it doesn’t come back.

Elizabeth Rovere:
But it was your like, it’s fears like that were kind of withheld in you, or anger that things were there. Were they your emotions, or were they just energies, or both?

Robert Peng:
It can be both, because the anger you can associate with some event. With some of the stories that you are mistreated. At first, you’re angry with that. You have the target, it’s easy. But then you begin just to be angry. Yeah, that is harder because you don’t have the target. Yeah, that takes longer time. But that goes to deep as well. Because you are beginning to deal with your own karma.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Right. Right. So it’s like, kind of going through some of your karma?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, it should be the karma because it’s hiding much, much deeper. Yeah. You know, there’s many times for the people, they don’t know why they’re cranky. If you know, actually already half done. My wife and I will waive the first year a few years with the sometimes we got into big fight. We’re cooking. Why? Because we’re both hungry. Then we’re cooking in tiny little things. Sparkles. It’s not what is wrong. It’s just the you are hungry then you don’t know why, but now we know why that identifies. So anytime when one of us are a little bit impatient. And we’re impatient, your words are very dynamic. Explosive. Terrible to hear. Then we’re both alert and aware of this, you say, are you hungry? Are you sleepy? These two things. Yes. Then we realize this, actually solutions there really.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, thinking about it in that 100 days, you experience such intensities.

Robert Peng:
For about eight days or so, my breath is so slow that you can feel the pulse. Yeah, we have an a small death. And you breathing are very slow. Normally, like we do five, six times a minute of breath, that’s normal. How about two times an hour. So you don’t feel it. Because it’s very slow breathing, very slow breathing. And that is also a critical moment of change, like transform of your body. And I don’t know whether it’s true. But there’s a saying, you know, along the Yangtze River, this one part, is very steep cliff. And there’s some caves carved in there. And some people call it like, do meditation and they die there. They don’t want to go, they want to die. Because it is so beautiful. And the reason they chose there, because you know, you we don’t have people taking care of a monastery. You need to have a safe place. Because if you are practicing over here, the wolf who eats you, so they stay in the cave. And then they may experience the same small death. The small death can be very tricky for you to do to be on yourself. Because you’re so slow, that you need some high masters help to boost your Qi, to make it sustainable. Any moment it stops, you may just go. Wow, big death. So my master was with me for that eight days, all the time. All the time.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Were you aware that he was there?

Robert Peng:
I didn’t. I was just like, wandering in the other world.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And you remember wandering?

Robert Peng:
Yeah, well, you have very vivid,. This like you’re traveling to some place.

Elizabeth Rovere:
What did you see?

Robert Peng:
It’s like you experienced even life there. You go there. There is lifetime. Very interesting. You had like that eight days, you’re hundreds of lives.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Your lives, or other lives?

Robert Peng:
It’s me. But maybe in another dimension. Yeah. And then it comes into awareness. I can still remember it. So true, so vivid.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Just like right now.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, it’s just like, yeah, just like right now, like in the dream, but more solid than the dream. We wake up, you forget that you know it. You know, oh I’m doing my meditation, you still know.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, it’s interesting. Like it’s almost more real. It’s something that you know.

Robert Peng:
That kind of things how to how to explain. Hard to explain. And also after that my zapping energy. Yeah. Because you know, this Biguan is to purify my energy. Purification is through fasting, then allow the energy to concentrate. Then my potential energies of healing are sharper. Before I met my master, I do have that kind of gift. That can zap people, but I have to focus for three, five minutes let it go. It’s like static electricity. When people laughing, I thought everybody can do this. I didn’t know is the special gift there. My master, he noticed that. Then he amplified, he actually developed that part. So it’s after that, I can, like focus on my energy then I could transfer it through my fingers, or through my forehead, to my patients. Some people feel—

Elizabeth Rovere:
I felt it. Even my arm went like…

Robert Peng:
The sensitivity for some people is also different. Some are super sensitive. Some are not. Like you mentioned about…

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, the first time I saw you and I was like, What are you doing? Like are you using something?

Robert Peng:
Some people, they have this, Do you feel anything? I don’t [laughter] Because they don’t say the sensitivity is the energy that goes into your, like, you know it. They don’t know it’s from here, because it’s like so powerful.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Well, that’s something that’s, the 100 day fast helped you cultivate that more intensely. And I want to make sure that our listeners hear that there are stories in your book and you’ve shared too, about how, like, using that taking the life force or the Qi through yourself, you know, into through the Dantians to the sword finger that you break, you’ve broken apart, you know, literally like tumors and things, and brought the nourishing Qi and people have healed. And then, and I think about that, like, it’s just a beautiful, fascinating ability and experience for people that I’m sure are incredibly grateful. And, you know, I think about like that experience, you had the very first time I guess, which was with, you know, Xiao Yao said, Go to heal that general, and you’re like, oh my God! what? Can I do it? Right?

Robert Peng:
Yeah. Before, I was always doing a little side work. He would say, press Yongquan, so I press Yongquan point. Sword fingers to kidneys, so I do sword fingers on kidneys . So I was always assisting. And he knew I was ready to be independent. But he needed a push. If he said here, you do this, you do that. Until one day we have General Han. Like, for me, policemen. Yeah. And Army soldiers, especially the general, is like, my God, they are very powerful person. They can kill you easily. So then the army troops send people to ask their master too go treat him, because it’s very strong, infections, that is so painful. He has to go back to Beijing, but he has to stay because it’s so painful. And also fever and everything, he couldn’t travel. And he has a big meeting to go, so he’s very anxious. They tried different hospitals, doctors, didn’t work. Antibiotics didn’t work. So they say oh, let’s try Master Xiao Yao. I was there, I said I’m busy with something, I send my students there. That’s first thing I was angry with him, said my God, the first time you sent me to such a big man, they send a Jeep several hours of going there and no no no no and, you go, I trust you can do it. Yeah, of course I have to go, so go there. And at first I was quite encouraged by this General Han, because I thought you know the leader of the army is very serious always. But he’s a broad laughter. Yeah, of course the when a knock the door, he say he’s coming, he’s very weak. So I did the treatment project feel like burning sensations from the area. But actually the treatment is simple, just clear it and nourish the Qi.

Elizabeth Rovere:
But you felt when you saw him, you could…you saw it in him? Or when you touched him you’ll feel it? And you feel it –

Robert Peng:
Normally I tune myself energy into him, by breathing together with the patient synchronized with the patient, then we’re on the same page, same platform of energy, dialogue. That is time, you can begin to really do the treatment otherwise, it’s like I’m talking Chinese. You’re talking English, we don’t communicate. So all this preparation work takes about 10, 20 minutes like you know it’s like massage, but it’s not massage. It is the way of building the platform of working together, then when it’s connected, then that is used the energy work—just clear, nourish, then empower, nourish, empower, sending the light, channel them. Then the healing power in himself begin to work.

Elizabeth Rovere:
It kicks in.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, so they kick out, and the second day. Yeah, I didn’t know. I didn’t know it worked good. I was still afraid, whatever, it is getting worse. He’s gonna shoot me dead. Then the second day, the guard brought me there. And knocked at the door. His sound is much louder. “Come in here!” He’s so happy. He was so happy. Yeah, he gave me watches that he wears, that is like very special. As a present. And that is the milestone for me, to start my healing journey independently. So my master was like, big kick. Because otherwise will may take me another half years slowly, slowly. He made it happen overnight.

Elizabeth Rovere:
He made it happen overnight. So you knew that you knew you could do it.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, yeah.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, that’s such a great story. I love it. I love it. It’s like your whole history and all of your stories. It’s like, you have so many incredible experiences and miraculous moments. I, you know, and you’re so like, as you talk about it, there’s such a balance and levity. And I guess it’s just, I don’t even know if there’s any, is there a moment that you would single out as the most sort of wonderstruck? Or awestruck? Or mysterious, or like, transformational? I mean, you’ve had so many.

Robert Peng:
Well, first, I couldn’t imagine my life, what my life would be without meeting my master. For us to meet together is miracle already. And also the amazing effect of how energy can do the healing is always like, big awe. Some problems can be like, oh, fatal in this modern science and medicine. For us, maybe it’s just like, piece of cake. Some are very challenging for us. Western medicine, easy. So it’s good composition. So when I have my patients coming. Of course, a lot of them are cancer patients, or depression, or they just don’t know it just feel not well. Always first thing is I try to see, where the blockage is. Then you clear it. Then their own energy begin to work. But I always say, Well, I don’t want to claim it’s me doing the healing, because first it’s their own energy. And also, it’s the combination of all kinds of things, like a lot of cancer patients, they have chemotherapy, they have operation. Yeah. I don’t want to stop them. You say always, test and try and in the end, they finish. But then you don’t want to stop them abruptly because all this create a kind of echo, holistic echo. Yeah. If you stop them abruptly, still, it doesn’t work well. Of course, in the end that give me a big credit. But I never claimed is me doing the healing to heal them, they heal themselves. Once when their mind is open and when that mind is following the right channel, always have some miracle happens.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah, I think it’s important. And I’m glad that you said that. There’s the two things, that one is the way in which that it’s like an activation of their own energy, or life force that gets instigated, or starts to work to heal themselves. Right, that the body wants to heal itself; it just has to be open to it. And that, you know, you’re sort of a facilitator almost in a way.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, we just help them.

Elizabeth Rovere:
So I wanted to just thank you for saying what you said about how people have this capacity to heal themselves. And that, like the natural trajectory is healing; that the body, the whole being wants to heal, we want to heal ourselves, we want to heal. We want to be whole. And that you, or even Xiao Yao, that you have these extraordinary abilities, but that you’re a facilitator to open those pathways. To let it unfold. And then, you know, what you were saying also about the Qigong method, and how it can be blended with Western science. And then something that’s really easy in Qigong might be very difficult in Western medicine. It’s something easy in Western medicine, might be harder within a Qigong, that these can be something that can be compatible. Because I think sometimes people think, oh, it has to be this, or it has to be that, it’s like, no, you have this. You have options for both.

Robert Peng:
Yeah, that’s true. That’s actually, this what it’s supposed to be. There’s no prejudice, but now we have prejudice. And for whatever reasons they are, we either we don’t have enough evidence, or for us to practice it. We see it. Yeah, we see it. Some just say, don’t go to doctor at all. No. Because you know, there are so many beautiful things about the modern science in terms of medicine. So we should open, open our heart, open, embrace all possibilities. And that’s how I treat my clients, or patients, be open. Open is not just a single word. It is really to go to different layers of energy cultivation. In Chinese, we have the word say, Ai Mo Da Hu Xin Si, like, when your mind wants to die, it’s not treatable, meaning our mind actually is making the decisions of our life. Death and life actually, quality of life. Well, no psychology, they were working on this actually. Yeah. And which we already are very good with different layers of cultivations with them, make them aware. The problem is that we say, Oh, I like this, from word, even from some way I think I believe it. But energetically, they’re rejecting this. Since Qigong is using the way nonverbal; we’ve not used word, we just use the energy to make the cells produce cells and cells, organs and organs. They agreed that magic can happen, then the magic happens.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Can you explain what that means? When you’re talking about being able to work with Qi in a way that’s remote? That it kind of, I don’t even know what to say, it goes through the distance or time aspect?

Robert Peng:
Well the remote healing there, two understanding, one is that I don’t touch you. Sword finger, that is remote healing, distant healing. And the other is that I don’t care, I don’t mind where you are, you are in China, I still do the healing of you. That is the big remote healing. Because first energy, energy goes the mind, goes with the breathing, goes in the universe. There’s another energy channel called Central Meridian, we have Upper Dantian, Middle Dantian, Lower Dantian, and the Central Meridian. Central Meridian is the energy that connect or three Dantians. More than that, they go out and connect with Heaven and Earth Qi. My master, when he was teaching me, the ideas of Central Meridian, he said, “it’s an energy channel. It’s not organ. It’s not something, it is energy channel. Yeah. Anytime you bring awareness to your Central Meridian, you become to be the center of your universe. It’s a very powerful concept. Yeah. Because nowadays, we’re always using some other’s universe. Everybody has his own universe. And several, multiple universe, yeah, multiple dimensions of your life. But now we’re always trying to borrow, use the other’s value or other’s ways to think that is the way that I should do without bringing awareness internally. So when you connect with your three Dantians, and connect with Heaven and Earth Qi, your own being are centered by your own energy. That is how Buddha said, you have your potential energy, you have everything you have with this way. Bring the Central Meridian. So, when you this have this awareness in your mind, through cultivations, then you can really send energies out to anywhere. There’s no problem with the distance for Qi. Qi goes anywhere, even quicker than the light. Think about Mars. Now my Qi is in Mars there.

Elizabeth Rovere:
It’s faster than light.

Robert Peng:
Yeah. So we say the mind is quicker than the mind, than the light. So when, of course, when we do the remote healing, it’s good that you have clients, or patient sitting or lying down there. Then we have some certain rituals to connect, like I mentioned about platform of working, that we can communicate together energetically. So when the healer, his Central Meridian is aware that sort of the practice of some meditations or chanting and also we have some energy points to work and we also have hologram palm. Your palms that it can reflect all conditions of the patient that you work on here, then they can be begin to be connected through the Central Meridian. It’s like radio stations.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Oh, that’s cool.

Robert Peng:
That is like a radio receiver. And it can amplify it. Then the healing work can start.

Elizabeth Rovere:
That’s fascinating. You know, when you were describing all of that, I was thinking like, somehow it was making me think about that. There’s a, you wrote a quote in your book where, you know, the idea of enlightenment, or maybe like, waking these centers up, that the universe is waiting to awaken within you. So, it almost makes me think of that kind of infinite, expansive connection. Is that true?

Robert Peng:
That’s true. Actually, the whole world needs to be awakened. Yes, because when it’s awakened, then awakened awareness is the true nature.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Right. Right. No, it’s beautiful. Thank you, Robert. Thank you.

Robert Peng:
Thank you.

Elizabeth Rovere:

That was Robert Peng. Thank you so much, Robert. For more information about Robert, his courses, live events and his new book, The Way of Virtue, Qigong Meditations to Cultivate Perfect Peace in an Imperfect World, visit robertpeng.com. Please come back next time on Wonderstruck when I’ll be joined by another fascinating guest. For more information about Wonderstruck our guests and our events, check out wonderstruck.org, and please follow the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify, and subscribe on YouTube. We truly want to hear from you with your feedback reviews and ratings. You can also follow us on Instagram, X, TikTok, and Facebook at wonderstruck pod. Wonderstruck is produced by Wonderstruck Productions, along with the teams at Baillie Newman and FreeTime Media. Special thanks to Brian O’Kelley, Eliana Eleftheriou, Travis Reece and Nikki Dindo. Thank you for listening. And remember, be open to the wonder in your own life.