Emma Mumford: Surrendering into Serenity and Manifestation

Elizabeth Rovere:

Hello and welcome to season two of Wonderstruck. I am your host, Elizabeth Rovere. I’m a clinical psychologist, a yoga teacher, and a graduate of Harvard Divinity School. I’m really curious about our experiences of wonder and awe and how they transform us. My guest this time is Emma Mumford. Emma is a best-selling author and host of Spiritual Queen’s Badass Podcast, where she covers topics like manifestation, out of body experiences, The Law of Attraction and processing trauma. Emma’s own path of spiritual awakening came unexpectedly. As Emma tells me in our conversation, she suffered from panic attacks and anxiety. She found herself in a deep depression, unable to work, and in debt. One night, overwhelmed by the heaviness, she found herself in a state of surrender, and asked for help from the universe. From there, Emma’s life began to transform as she opened herself up to teachings, therapies, and self-help tools. Embracing these powerful modalities, and tapping into personal wells of agency and creativity, she has worked through childhood trauma, developed her intuition, and now helps others on their journey for a fulfilling life. Emma’s biggest gift, however, may be as a communicator: she brings optimism and a can-do attitude to topics that may seem difficult to manage. And she makes complex ideas feel approachable and attainable. Please join me in welcoming Emma Mumford to Wonderstruck.

Elizabeth Rovere:

Okay, so, Emma. Of course, I think the first question I’ve got to ask you is that you created and host the UK’s number one spirituality podcast, Spiritual Queen’s Badass Podcast, which, as I’ve said, is a fantastic name. It’s a great show, you’ve got some really big-name, stellar, fun guests. And I feel that it really unfolded fast for you. And, you know, you talk about Law of Attraction and manifestation. And I guess, you know, I think that it’d be really interesting to hear more about how this happened for you, and to what extent, and how manifestation – or how you manifested this in a way, right? I mean, how did it come to be?

Emma Mumford:
So, we say that the podcast was almost like a happy accident, because I definitely didn’t know what to expect. But what happened from it was, you know, beautiful. And even before that, going back a few years, my journey kind of really starts in 2012, when I was doing something completely different to this. I was known as the UK’s Coupon Queen, and I was helping people to save money and coupon. So, I think my journey is really interesting, because I think everything that I’ve kind of fallen into has been a happy accident, and I haven’t really known that that was going to take off, or it was going to be a business or that it would, you know, do anything. And I think the same really happened with my spiritual journey, when I realized I wanted to talk about the Law of Attraction and manifestation. It wasn’t something that I was like, this has been my dream since childhood. You know, I didn’t even know what the Law of Attraction was until 2016. So, for me, it’s just been great to share these journeys in my life with my audience, with my platforms. And it’s just amazing that I’ve been so lucky enough to have that, you know, develop into a YouTube channel, develop into a podcast, and you know, have great conversations with people like you, Elizabeth.

Elizabeth Rovere:
That’s so interesting. And I love how you say that it just sort of unfolds, it seems like it just unfolded out of the spiritual work and aspects of the work that you were doing, with writing a book, or coaching, you’re doing the work on YouTube and talking about spirituality. And going back to where you had mentioned that you started with extreme couponing, and extreme couponing queen, and how that took off. So, I mean, clearly, I’m gonna you have a real talent for, you know, like, for business and putting things out there. And, you know, I know that in your story, you’ve talked about getting out of debt, and you didn’t just get out of debt, like you created a whole phenomenon of helping other people get out of debt, which is a beautiful thing. So that’s spiritual work, as well. You know, I mean, like that kind of phenomenon of helping people feel more grounded about having to handle debt and finances and money is, you know, people seem to sometimes, we split that world with the spiritual world, but it’s really not. It’s really interconnected. And, so, I sort of see that as this ongoing trajectory of what you’ve done. But I also just think it’s super fun and interesting. And maybe you could tell us a little bit about how that happened for you. And how did you even come up with extreme couponing and doing this? It’s really cool.
Emma Mumford:
Yeah, and I think like you say, it doesn’t feel a whole world away from what I was doing, you know, the spiritual work, it is just a different type of spiritual work, you know, like you say, the two do go hand in hand together. And money has always sort of really followed me throughout my life. Back in 2012, when I started the couponing, I was at, really, you know, a dark stage of my life. I was experiencing depression, I was experiencing anxiety, I was in my first not so great relationship. And I was about 18, 19 years old at this time. So, you know, I was really, really young as well. And I just got this incredible banking job, I was a banking manager, at one of the UK’s leading banks. And banking was something I never saw myself getting into. I knew I wanted to follow my dad’s footsteps of being an entrepreneur. But, you know, back in those days, YouTube barely existed, you know, there wasn’t like influencers or people online, you know, you didn’t have a public platform. You had to invent something, you had to have a product. So, I never really knew what that would be, or what I would invent or anything like that. So, I think I kind of put that on the back burner and just kind of thought, I need to get a job, I need to like, get some money, and just go out into the big wide world. So, I sort of fell into role after role after role, then fell into the banking role. So, every day I was, you know, essentially putting people in debt. I was giving them credit cards, mortgages, loans, and it was soul destroying, to say the least. You know, I would have these little, like, 80-year- old little dears come in who I just loved having a cup of tea with and chatting with them. And my manager would be like, have you given them a 10,000 pound loan? I’m like, no, she doesn’t need one. And for me, I loved the customer service aspect of it. I love talking to people and working with people. But the pressure of, you know, having to put people in debt just didn’t sit right with me. And although I was really good at what I did, it was, you know, I felt natural doing that, not having to force things on people, if that makes sense, like they came to me because they wanted that. And equally, you know, as I was going into work every day, I was having these panic attacks, I was having these anxiety attacks, because I knew that that’s not what I wanted to do. And it was just installing again, the situation that I was in at home, which was, I’d just taken out a loan for my boyfriend at the time to clear his debts that I knew nothing about until the bailiff started knocking at our door. So obviously, I got preferential rates at the bank. So, I said, well, I’ll take out a loan, you pay me, you know, you pay me each month, gets the bailiffs off our back. And he never paid a single penny of that loan. And we broke up very shortly afterwards. So, there was me, 19, 20 years old, at this point with 7,000 pounds debt. I had to leave my banking role, because again, I couldn’t even turn up to work, I was just so full of anxiety. And these really, really horrific panic attacks that would make me feel like I was having a heart attack, or you know, needed to go to hospital. Because they do feel like that, sometimes. So, for me, I knew well, I can’t go into work, because I can’t even work if I’m sat in the bathroom, like having a panic attack. So, I knew that I needed to leave that job. And it just wasn’t right for me. And it was too triggering to be around debt and tell people that they couldn’t have money as well. You know, it’s not just about giving people loans. It’s actually when people desperately need money. And the computer says, no, I have to tell that person, you can’t feed your kids this week. And that is just not something you ever want to have to tell somebody. So, I knew that it just wasn’t where I was meant to be and it was only making my mental health even worse, to be honest. So, I got a part time job after that. And obviously, just wanted to focus on clearing the debt, healing from that relationship, and trying to, you know, decide who on earth I was as a 20-year-old and obviously, you know what I wanted to do with life. So having that part time job was really good just to take the pressure off, and just to kind of like reset and see where the land laid as well. And that’s when I came across couponing. Because obviously, without being able to work full time, I had, you know, I had bills to pay. And I also had a loan to clear as well. And I used to watch the American show that we all know and love. And I thought, wow, like this is incredible, people can get thousands of pounds worth, or dollars, worth of food for free. Like imagine if I could do this, that would help me so much to just take the pressure off and have that extra money to be able to clear the debt each month, and get it cleared quicker. So, I had a look online here in the UK, and there was maybe one person talking about it. But it definitely was very taboo. There wasn’t many resources out there, there wasn’t any kind of, you know, websites you could kind of go to and get these coupons. So, I took it upon myself to really find these coupons and discounts, and think okay, where can I find these? And after about six months, they have this whole spare room stockpile of like, different products, it looks exactly like you see it on the show. And my friends are like, Emma, you need to share this with people like this is incredible. Like we love coming in with our little shopping baskets and taking stuff, but you know, like you need to share this with people as well, people would love it. So, after a lot of pestering, because obviously the imposter syndrome in me was like, who am I, you know? We’ve got Martin Lewis, who’s like a big financial guru here in the UK, there’s loads of people out there, like who am I to tell people how to save money? But I just started out my page, as honestly, just a page to help people and just share that information. I didn’t know it could be a business, I had no knowledge of how to start a business, no knowledge that a business like that could even earn money. So, for about six months, it just continued to grow and grow and grow. We had about 100,000 followers at that point. And that’s when the press kind of really started to take an interest, I would be presenting on This Morning. And it was just really wild to kind of go from such a really kind of desperate situation, where I’d obviously had to leave the job, you know, broke up with the boyfriend, had the debt and now, you know, 6, 7, 8 months later being on TV presenting, and teaching people how to coupon if, you know, it’s just nothing that I ever imagined would happen or come from, you know, a really negative situation in my life at that point. So, it was amazing. And it was natural. You know, I didn’t go in with those, you know, intentions. But I suppose to some degree, my soul was manifesting that, of course. It was getting me onto the path to find my purpose.

Elizabeth Rovere:
That’s an inspiration for people to know about, to hear about, to experience. I just think it’s great. It’s that story of transformation, right? Going from panic attack, to like, something that really connects you to others, that really feels like you’re engaged and appreciated, and appreciating this interaction with others. I just think of the spiritual work, like it becomes spiritual work, it’s kind of fascinating, right? Like, you wouldn’t think banking would take you down that road, and then it does.

Emma Mumford:
Yeah, hugely, like I had absolutely no idea what you know that it could turn into a business, that that would be my life for six years. You know, I had no knowledge of coupons before that, but it’s just like spirituality. You know, I would have said, at that point, as we get to my spiritual awakening in 2016, when I was running the business, you know, the anxiety, the depression was still there. But I was trying, you know, I was trying medication, I was, you know, having CBT therapy, counseling, and nothing was really getting to the root, nothing was really giving the kind of long-term shifts and results, but it was more manageable at that time. Because, you know, I really do think couponing saved me in so many ways, it gave me something positive to focus on, it gave me a purpose by, you know, helping myself, but helping others to be able to do that as well. So, I feel like it was almost like a positive distraction, or positive thing that I could really put my energy towards, and feel like I had that purpose, which I don’t feel I had at all in the bank.

Elizabeth Rovere:
And it was your own inherent creativity, that, you know, it’s almost like the energy of anxiety, like the energy of depression, which can be like a heavy energy or, you know, a flighty anxious energy. When it can, when it’s channeled into the creativity, something beautiful could come out of it. And I mean, that’s just a fascinating and wonderful story. I mean, you said that out of it came your spiritual experience in 2016. I know you ask everyone on your show that question. So, I got to ask you, what was your spiritual experience?

Emma Mumford:
Yes, definitely. So, fast forwarding to 2016. I was in again, a not great relationship for the second time. So, there’s a pattern here, my relationships seem to awaken me in life to my purpose, to helping people. So yeah, I was going through that again, the depression and anxiety was still there. But the difference was, I was running a really successful business at this point. So, I think, you know, I look back at that time in my life, and I think probably a lot of people would have looked at me and thought, wow, like, Emma’s got everything, she’s got a nice flat, she’s got a partner, she’s got a really successful business, she’s presenting on TV, but it was, you know, all of those things were true. But equally as well, you know, there was still that hollow depression within me that was still that void, there was still that unhappiness, which no matter what I was doing, nothing was giving me relief, nothing was getting me that result of feeling happiness and peace. So, when that second relationship broke down in 2016, that was really the kind of catalyst for the spiritual awakening, because I probably would have said I was an atheist, I probably would have said my faith was at an all-time low. Because, you know, I used to think, you know, why would a god, why would a universe let all these bad things happen to people? Why would a god, let me feel so depressed and have suicidal thoughts, but equally have this amazing business and really positive things, you know, happening in my life. So, I think I kind of just switched off from the kind of, you know, belief side of things. And when I had my spiritual awakening, it came through, you know, deciding whether I was going to take my life or change my life. And I knew that I didn’t want to end my life, I thought, you know, if people are able to experience happiness, then I can experience happiness. I don’t know how I’m gonna get there. But I want to be able to feel that happiness that I know other people have. And from that, a couple of days later, I was just searching online, and I typed in, how to turn a negative situation into a positive. And this woman came up, and she was talking about this manifesting, this law of attraction and our thoughts. And little did I know it was Louise Hay at the time. But, you know, her words were just so captivating. And I thought, wow, okay, what she’s saying makes so much sense. So, I kept seeing this word, Law of Attraction, Law of Attraction, and very often, the Law of Attraction will actually find you. It’s very rare that people will find it, it tends to find you. So, I kept hearing this word. And I was like, what is this? What is this thing? And then I came across The Secret, I came across The Secret documentary on Netflix as well. And when I was watching it, it just felt like a remembering; it didn’t feel like I was learning a new skill, like couponing. It was like a remembrance of, oh, of course, that is why I’m in this position. Of course, that’s why I’ve had these life experiences. Of course, that’s how life and energy works. So again, just like couponing, it really captivated me. And again, was something so positive that I could put my energy into, to create something positive from it. So, at that point, obviously, I had no desire to turn it into a business. I had my couponing business, but, you know, as time went on, I was seeing these shifts within myself , and my mental health, and my energy, .you know, seeing physical manifestations as well, that’s when I started to vocalize that a little bit more on my YouTube channel. And I thought that people would totally switch off from it and be like, couponing, Law of Attraction? Like, no, definitely not. I’m not here for that. But people knew about it. People were like, yeah, I know about manifesting, or I’m so glad you’re talking about this with money. It’s so refreshing. So, the response was actually really positive. So, what I do now, I don’t think is hugely different to the couponing. I still talk about money. I still talk about money mindset, I still talk about, you know, manifestation and everything, but I feel like it’s evolved, if anything.

Elizabeth Rovere:
You know, there’s so much in what you said that I’d love to ask you about. I mean, the one thing that I’m associating to right, as you were speaking, as, you know, first of all it’s just like, wow, and, you know, that’s feeling suicidal, having depression and anxiety attacks. And I think that’s certainly something that a lot of us can really relate to, a lot of listeners and turning it around can sometimes be an up and down process. And, you know, as you talk about it, it feels like, there’s blocks in the process of it, but you just walk. You were able to really gather that energy and that force. And it’s like, I don’t want to live like this, I don’t want to exit, I want to live, I want to be able to really be happy and engage and feel alive in my life. And like, how did you, how did you do it? How did you go from A to B, like, in a way that, you know, it’s almost like you have a very profound sense of, I’m going to do it. Determination, grit, awareness, like, how did you do it? Do you see aspects of the steps in that process for yourself?

Emma Mumford:
I feel like there were steps, but it’s also still unfolding, it’s still a process and journey that I still am absolutely navigating even today, you know, six years on. So, I think the determination, like you say, was definitely the starting point of that of, you’ve got to do something, you can’t just lie on this bathroom floor forever, like you have to do something. If you want to experience happiness, you’ve got to, you know, make a change, do something. So although I didn’t necessarily have the vocabulary, or the resources at that time to understand how to do that, I think that determination, and I honestly feel like it came from my soul, because I remember there was this really pivotal moment for me, which I think just changed everything, where I was looking out of the window at 2am in the morning. And I just remember looking out the window and saying, universe, help me. And that was it. And I didn’t know where those words came from. I don’t know why I called it the universe, because obviously, I only really knew about God at that point. So, it was such a profound moment, where I felt within me my ego was almost surrendering. And my soul was like, come on, it’s time now. Like, remember who you are, we’re here to do this, you know. So, I think once that moment had happened, that’s when you know, the thing started to find me: the Law of Attraction, self-help, spirituality, learning to love yourself, you know, mental health, working on your mindset. So, I would say it was like an unfolding journey. As I wrote my third book, Hurt, Healing, Healed in 2020, it’s been, oh, my gosh, the best, biggest journey of unraveling all of this, but it is continuous, like, it’s still unraveling now. And that’s why I say, you know, healing sometimes isn’t linear. It’s not a case of, you know, by that kind of eight-month mark, I was fine. I never experienced any depressive episodes or anything ever again because I hadn’t actually addressed it at that point. It was more those kind of tools and practices to help regulate, and just live a more positive life, if that makes sense.

Elizabeth Rovere:
Yeah no, it makes a lot of sense. And the thing that stands out to me, too, that is such a key and important piece, is that you said you look out into the universe and you’re like, help me, universe, or God or something that’s greater than yourself. And the ego just takes a backseat, like that aspect of surrendering and creating space for other things to come in, instead of like that whole kind of process of spiraling, and like you said, feeling like I’m on the bathroom floor, which, right, like, you know, in some ways we can all relate to, like, what am I going to do? And it’s like, well, guess what I, you know, might need to ask for some help or surrender that part of the ego, so that the true self or like, as you talk about in your work, the authentic self, can take some space, and that authentic self is created as something, whether it’s God or not. Something greater than you. And I think that’s a really interesting piece. And then I know you’ve talked about some of the tools that you’ve got, that you’ve utilized with EFT, or inner child work. You know, these are things that to do, but it takes bravery to face. You know, and I think that’s also something that might be important to underscore, is that while we’re talking about manifestation and law of attraction, happiness, joy, like, finding your true purpose and path, you know, you don’t just get there from saying like, okay, you know, everything is glorious, and I’m just gonna keep thinking positive. It’s like, yes, that’s good, you know, keep the positive mindset. But I also got to look at this other side. I’ve got to look at some of my shadow, I’ve got to look at these difficulties. And, facing them, you know, I think it takes courage, it takes bravery to walk through it. So, I appreciate you talking about that in your book as well. You know, I think sometimes we all want, like, it’s like, what’s the easy way out? I gotta get out of this. It’s like, yeah, okay, getting out of it is going through it. It’s all good.

Emma Mumford:
And we all want a cheat sheet. Don’t we? We want that cheat sheet of what’s the quickest way to my manifestation? What’s the quickest way to the end goal? And, you know, I wish that we could just wave that magic wand, and it is that easy. But sometimes it is, right? You know, if we affirm it’s hard. But equally, I found, you know, with my biggest desires that I’ve wanted to manifest, there is work that comes with that, and especially, again, unpacking trauma and unpacking the things that I had zero awareness of that had happened in my childhood at this point, it takes a lot, it takes a lot. And, you know, I’m so thankful for that journey. Because I think a lot of the time people think that you can’t manifest if you have inner work, or, you know, you are experiencing limiting beliefs or fears or even you know, reliving trauma, or, you know, know that there’s something in your past. And, you know, trauma can look like so many things, I think trauma can have quite a big, kind of like emphasis on it of like, oh, no, I haven’t kind of experienced any trauma. And I know, I was definitely someone who was like, oh, no, I haven’t experienced anything traumatic, because I didn’t want to take away anything from people who had really experienced something really traumatic. But, you know, from what I’ve learned about trauma, and what I’ve learned about the inner work and subconscious mind, you know, I realized that trauma can literally be someone in the playground saying, you know, who are you to do that, and our subconscious mind has kind of like, clung on to that and carrying it into our adulthood. So, yeah, it’s definitely brave for those who are willing to learn and willing to obviously unpack that. But, when you do unpack that, I call it like, the backpack of life, when you take the backpack off, and you know, you’re able to unpack that, you know, there are so many miracles and blessings within there, because there’s an opportunity to like, you say, let it go and release, so that you can come from, you know, your authentic self, here and now.

Elizabeth Rovere:

Yeah, I mean, it’s so interesting, what you’re saying. I have a couple of questions about it, you know, one is, it’s almost like you’re saying, can you still do the Law of Attraction if you’re having all this trauma? Or you’ve had these things. It’s like, yeah, actually, it may even work better for you. Because you’re in the process of facing it and creating the space for things to unfold. So, I think that’s kind of wonderfully paradoxical. And then, you know, I don’t know if that experience in the playground happened to you? I don’t know. And I would wonder, would you be willing to talk about a specific example of something that was traumatic, that sort of process of going through and seeing the energy shift in a way that opened you up to have more authenticity and positivity in your life.

Emma Mumford:
So, as I mentioned, in 2020, that’s when it kind of really started to come through thick and strong, and I started to discover inner child work, and I feel like inner child work gave me the kind of access to it almost, to be able to start to dive into that, and start to understand how my inner child had been, you know, impacting my relationships, impacting my behaviors, impacting my beliefs, impacting how I talk about myself, impacting, you know, all of our relationships in our life. And, you know, almost how we, you know, well, it’s how we manifest as well, our energy, right, because we attract what our energy is. So, learning about the inner child was powerful because not only was it deeply healing in itself to be able to connect to that part of myself that had felt abandoned, that had felt sad, that had felt triggered for so long. But then it felt safe enough for the other things to come up. So, during Hurt, Healing, Healed, obviously I explore my relationship with my parents, I explore my childhood, my inner child. I actually had zero awareness still of really the kind of root, deep, core things that had happened. I had a great awareness of a lot of things. And you know, I did receive so much healing by that point to be able to write that book and release that book. But ironically, the bulk of the work came up when I got into a healthy loving relationship. And it also came up after I finished that book, which I think is really interesting, but also, it’s not coincidental, because as I realized during therapy that the reason why my PTSD came to the forefront when I was happy was because my nervous system on my body finally felt safe enough to be able to even address any of it. So, for years, I’d been living in this place of adrenal stress, of trauma of, you know, anxiety, of depression. So, although it kind of felt confusing to me to be diagnosed with PTSD, whilst I was probably the happiest I had been in a long time, it did really make sense. So, from that journey, that was two years ago, I got diagnosed when I was writing the book. You know, I have discovered through memories that have come up, a tool I absolutely swear by is EMDR, which is eye movement desensitization and reprocessing. So, I’ve been working with my EMDR therapist since I got diagnosed with PTSD. And, oh my gosh, the shifts have been huge, just from doing that modality and that work. And I’ve been able to access deeper memories that I don’t think I would have been able to access had I have not done that therapy, had I have not uncovered all of this. So, now here, as I turned 30 a month or so ago, I was able to recall memories of being abused as a child. And that was a lot. It was a lot. Because obviously, when you’ve lived 29 years of your life thinking that your life was one way, to then one day think, huh, it wasn’t. Now you have that missing puzzle piece of why you are the way you are, or why you’ve had depression, why you’ve had anxiety. It was a weird feeling, because it was almost like this peace that kind of washed over me of, like, ah, there you go, makes sense.
Elizabeth Rovere:

You call it a puzzle piece.

Emma Mumford:

But then also, confusion. There’s a lot of questions that come up with that as well, you know.

Elizabeth Rovere:

I mean, having the memory and being taken off guard a little bit, at the beginning of that, and that’s like, okay, well, wait, how did that happen? When did that happen? Oh, my gosh. And the process, that’s the process of integrating it. And, you know, having to do, doing the EMDR work, I think it’s fantastic. And I mean, I think it’s a wonderful modality. I love it, because it really does engage where these memories are stored physiologically in cells, you know, how they’re hidden, the blocks that they create, in regard to like, being able to sort of feel fully online or alive in that way. So, you know, I support and applaud that you’ve that you’ve been doing that work. And then I love, again, I have to keep coming back to, you know, how you engage this holistic aspect of healing. And then you bring in agency, and your creativity, and you write a book. And you’re like, yeah, I’m still working on it. And yeah, I’m writing a book. And yes, this is unfolding, and things are positive, and things are frightening. It’s the whole picture. And I guess I keep coming back to agency and creativity, because I see that as, you know, the way out of trauma. You know, I’m turning it into something, I’m turning it into something, I’m transmuting it, it’s becoming something that’s meaningful, and whole. So, I, you know, again, you know, it’s something that I think, it’s great for people to hear about and learn that, you know, there’s a way out, there’s a way out. You know, and the positive can unfold. Even if we’re looking at things that are difficult or hard. I know that one of the interviews you have done that I really quite enjoyed was with Wim Hof. And I know you all, he’s such a character, such an interesting guy. But you all talked about trauma and hardship. And you know, he of course, has been through a lot with depression as well. And then, you know, it’s like his breath work and aspects of like, okay, how do I bring the body online and heal and engage in this work? So, I was wondering how you did that, if that was also a part of some of the healing work that you did, with some of the breathwork

Emma Mumford:

Yeah, and I mean, interviewing Wim was just like, the best experience, because he is just like, the nicest guy ever. He’s so funny, so down to earth. And I know it sounds weird to say, but he almost makes that work that little bit brighter, a little bit more lighter. Instead of, you know, sometimes it can feel really heavy to talk about trauma, or be like, let’s look at your traumas. Like nobody really wants to do that. They’d rather be doing some fancy meditation, or do you know what I mean? A bit more lighter. So, I love how Wim works with trauma and breathwork, because although I haven’t done any of his courses or anything since that podcast, it really inspired me to look more deeply into cold water therapy, into breath work. And I’ve done some breath work, obviously, in yoga practices and meditation before, so I’d kind of dipped my toes into it, definitely. But yeah, the cold-water therapy is something that I have loved for, well, ever since he came on the podcast. I’m not able to do it all the time. I’m not too brave going in the sea, just because the ocean here in the UK is like, literally minus whatever. But I like doing it in swimming pools and spas that obviously have, like, the hot and cold-water therapy with ice, especially. And it just, oh my gosh, the feeling and you can even do it at home in the shower as well. It doesn’t have to be out and about, anywhere, but doing it in nature I’m sure is definitely incredible in itself, but you could literally do it at home in your shower. And obviously you don’t need to do it all the time as well. A big thing that Wim said to me on the podcast was Emma, if you’re feeling fine, you don’t need to do any of my tools. It’s when you’re, you know, you feel unregulated. If you feel triggered, if you are going through a season of your life where you feel you need to reach that little bit deeper for something to help you, then that’s when you turn to it. So, definitely, you know, throughout the last few years, I have turned to ice plunges, the hot cold-water therapy, and it just gets me straight back in my body. And I think that’s really important when you’re working with trauma, especially physical body trauma, is to get back into the body and to regulate. And I would say probably breathwork, EFT, which is emotional freedom technique, and the cold-water therapy together have, yeah, really, really helped me to ground back in, regulate. And yeah, helped me through, along with the cognitive side of things as well.

Elizabeth Rovere:

Right. Yeah, no, it’s like the whole-body approach to it, which is fantastic. Yeah, that’s great. And you know that when I was listening to that interview, it also, you know, you all were talking about trauma, it reminded me of Viktor Frankl a little bit. And, you know, like, Viktor Frankl was a survivor of a concentration camp and World War Two, and, you know, wrote the book Man’s Search for Meaning. And, you know, he talks about, like, you know, maintaining a sense of humor, right? Finding meaning, and, like, the whole concept is like, yes, in spite of it, in spite of all of this, I’m still choosing to say yes, I’m still looking at positivity, or actually, possibility. Maybe not even positivity at moments, but possibility. And I just, you know, I think it’s the whole big picture, right? Like, yes, in spite of some of these things, and then what does that do, in the process of like, looking at how things unfold, or, you know, what you put your mind on, then starts to unfold a little bit like with this Law of attraction or Manifestation, I am saying yes, I am saying yes. You know? And maybe that is scary and brave, but it’s the direction I gotta go, rather than the other.

Emma Mumford:

We’re the creator of our life. So, you know, in those moments where I have been like, no, I am going to be happy. No, I am going to face this, I am going to feel free, and peace and happy. Like it’s, I think with the Law of Attraction and manifestation, why it gets so much stick sometimes is because it can feel like this kind of superficial, just be positive, you know, if you think bad thoughts, bad things are gonna happen. And the Law of Attraction is not that at all, and I think it’s a big misconception because I can bypass so many opportunities to genuinely feel happy. And when we, you know, hence why I wrote Hurt, Healing, Healed, when we allow ourselves to feel our emotions, feeling is healing. And the biggest mistake I made along my journey, especially in those early days, was trying to suppress the thoughts that was coming up. You know, I’d be watching things, reading books on manifesting, I’d be like: alright, I must think positive, I must reframe this into a positive. And sometimes you just can’t. And that’s okay. Sometimes there are situations in life where you can’t just reach for a positive thought or reach for the bigger picture of why this is happening. Because we don’t have access to that, at that point. And when you’re in the trenches of life, as I call them, you have to be in the trenches. There is a purpose to that, you may not know it at that time, you may not know what abundance or happiness, or joy awaits you. But being in those trenches is important because you’re going to learn something, you’re going to release something, and as you said earlier, create the space for that abundance and joy and however it looks, to come into your life. So yeah, I think it’s so, so important that we honor our feelings, and we honor our thoughts, because if I had just kept ignoring them and kept pushing it down, you know, I would not have the manifestation success I have today even in my personal life, because I wouldn’t have dealt with what was underneath. I wouldn’t have dealt with the energetics, which is, you know, my energy and my thoughts and who I am as a person. So, it is looking at mind, body, spirit, it is looking at the whole experience and being like, well, I can’t be high vibe each and every day. And that’s okay. Because I want to honor myself, because I know that the more I honor myself, the quicker those emotions and funky feelings will pass through me.

Elizabeth Rovere:

Exactly, exactly. I think that it’s wonderful and very beautiful, what you just described and said. And, you know, like nobody wants to go in the trenches. But as I said, there’s healing and release in it. You know, it’s the way to get unstuck. You know, it’s not the opposite, it’s the pathway of healing. And I think you’re right, that there’s a way that people sometimes will be like, oh, you know, Law of Attraction or manifestation, it seems so superficial. And I love how you’re talking about it, because you’re demonstrating and expressing how, you know what, actually, it’s not, it’s not at all superficial. And there’s, I mean, it also makes me think, like, you know, anything in life can be used as a bypass, you know, it could be one’s Catholicism, it could be one’s you know, binge watching television, it could be one’s workaholism. I mean, it doesn’t, you can pick whatever you want, you know, it could look as glorious and virtuous or not. But we have the capacity to bypass using anything, and not dealing. I mean, we’re very, are all very good at it as humans. So anyway, I just wanted to underscore that. I did want to ask you, because this is the Wonderstruck podcast, if you could tell us about that experience you’ve had that stands out to you from long ago or recently, of awe or wonder. And, you know, whether that’s been something that’s impacted you in your life.

Emma Mumford:

I think there’s probably so many moments, but I think the moment that I shared with you earlier, the looking out the window and saying, God, the universe help me, I think that was very profound, and a moment of awe for me, because it was an experience that I hadn’t had before, because it was that surrendering to the soul. And I didn’t know that that’s what it was at the time. But you know, looking back, that feeling definitely was that, so I think it’s just so interesting how moments in our life where we feel like we’re kind of falling apart, is actually us falling together.

Elizabeth Rovere:

No, that’s just really well sad. And I appreciate what you said about that being a process, a process of wonder and awe and, you know, exploration and unfolding. It’s pretty cool. And I want to wind up and just say thank you so much for being here on Wonderstruck and talking with us today. It’s really, really, really been an honor and a pleasure to speak with you.

Emma Mumford:

Thank you so much, Elizabeth. I’ve loved it. Thank you.

Elizabeth Rovere:

That was Emma Mumford. Thank you so much, Emma. For more information about Emma, her books, and her podcast you can visit emmamumford.co.uk. Please come back next time on Wonderstruck when I’ll be joined by Qigong master and healer Robert Peng. For more information about Wonderstruck, our guests, and our events, check out wonderstruck.org. And please follow the show on Apple Podcasts and Spotify and subscribe on YouTube. We truly want to hear from you with your feedback, reviews, and ratings. You can also follow us on Instagram, X, TikTok, and Facebook @wonderstruckpod. Wonderstruck is produced by Wonderstruck Productions, along with the teams at Baillie Newman and FreeTime Media. Special thanks to Brian O’Kelley, Eliana Eleftheriou, Travis Reece, and Nikki Dindo. Thank you for listening. And remember, be open to the wonder in your own life.